"Stockings"
Henry Dobbins uses his girlfriend's pantyhose as a good luck charm. What is your opinion of good luck charms? If you have one (and don't mind sharing), what is it? Do you truly believe this object is lucky?
"Church"
Compare and contrast the way Dobbins and Kiowa view religion. Which, if either, is closest to your view of religion?
"The Man I Killed"
How does O'Brien (the author) personalize the soldier that "O'Brien" (the character) kills? Is this strategy effective?
"Ambush"
Should "O'Brien" have lied to his young daughter when she asked if he killed a man? Should he have killed the enemy soldier? Explain your responses.
I don't really believe in good luck charms, and do not have one. I do see why he carries them for sentimental value though.
ReplyDeleteBoth Dobbins and Kiowa view religion as a good thing. Dobbins doesn't like to go to church, but would like to be a minister just because he likes to be nice to people. Kiowa likes going to church, but would never consider being a minister. I think my view is closest to Kiowa's, because I like to go to church, but wouldn't consider being a minister.
He personalizes the man by making inferences about what his life had been like up until that point by talking about his studies and his family. This strategy is very effective, because it puts a possible story behind the man, and makes him seem real.
Considering her age, i think it was appropriate to not tell her the truth yet. Yes i do believe he should have killed the enemy soldier. Had he not, he could have run the risk of getting himself killed.
Nicely said, Ryan. I especially like your comments about O'Brien's narrative strategy with the enemy soldier.
DeleteI believe that good luck charms hold sentimental value and comfort. I consider my mom my good luck charm. She's there for all my performances and everything else I cant think of. I couldn't imagine her not being there. I would say that i take place in both Kiowa and Dobbin's situation.I like to be nice to people and I'm at church every Sunday. Who knows what path God will lead me down. If his plan is for me to be a minister, so be it. O'Brien personalized the man he killed by describing his physical features and also by coming up with what he thinks the man's whole life story was. This was effective because like it was very believable. I don't think that O'Brien should have lied to his daughter about killing the man because I feel like she would've found out eventually. I really don't know if he should have killed him or not. Like, Ryan said, he saved himself from possibly getting killed, but then on the other side Kiowa said that the man would've died anyways, so I don't know where I stand with that.
ReplyDeleteHow sweet that you say your mom is your good-luck charm. You should share that sentiment with her on Mother's Day this Sunday. :)
DeleteAlthough a particular object may not literally carry any special "luck," things can seem that way to a person who carries a good luck charm. For example, if a man carries a lucky rabbit's foot with him everywhere, he may believe in its luck so whole-heartedly that he will begin to attribute everything good that happens to him to the luck of the rabbit's foot. Now, say that same man forgets his foot at home. He finds a dollar on the sidewalk on his way to work, but then steps in a puddle and gets his (real) foot wet. Since he left his rabbit paw at home, he will ignore the good luck he had that day (finding the dollar) and focus on the bad luck (stepping in the puddle). However, If the man would have remembered the paw, he would have focused on the fact that he found a dollar, and ignored the fact that he has a soggy shoe. So I definitely believe that good luck charms are helpful and can certainly make somebody feel "lucky."
ReplyDeleteI find Dobbins' take on religion and my take on religion to have many correlations with each other. I believe that the actions truly speak louder than words, and that the most important aspect of religion is to, as Dobbins would say, "be nice to people." I believe that God would rather have a man never attend church but volunteer to help others and be charitable than have a man who is dedicated to attending church every Sunday, but never reaches out to help others or even si,ply brighten another person's day.
O'Brien very effectively personalizes the dead man on the road. He gives him a life, a back story, emotions, and even drama in the man's life. What makes this approach so effective is that he does not ponder over this man's life. ("This man could have been a mathematician." "I wonder if he has a girlfriend." "What did his future have in store?") Instead, he states very matter-of-factly the facts of this man's life. ("This man was fond of mathematics." "He married his childhood sweetheart.")
I don't think that O'Brien should have lied to his daughter because I am a firm believer that censorship is overused in today's society. I believe children (and adults) should be exposed to the facts of life, and the wars that the United States is involved in. I also don't think that Tim should have killed the enemy, and he feels like shouldn't have either. Unfortunately, he realized his mistake too late.
And even though there is no way for O'Brien the character to know those "facts" about the man he killed, O'Brien the author can state them with assurance. Well said.
DeleteI do not believe in good luck charms and I do not have one. If he truly believes it helps him in situations then maybe it does have some luck towards him.
ReplyDeleteDobbins hates church but loves the feeling of helping people while Kiowa loves church and grew up all of hos life that way. I would relate more to Dobbins with this because I do not go to church but helping people is always a great feeling.
O'Brien personalizes the man he killed by giving him a life if he wouldn't have killed him. He gave him feeling and went into every small detail about the man. The strategy is extremely effective because it leaves me with no questions and the man. O'Brien explained everything about him very well.
He should have lied about killing the man since she was so young. He should have killed him because if not he would have been risking his and other peoples lives.
There is a line in the movie "Unforgiven" about killing a man and taking away everything he ever was or will be. I thought of that line when I read your post. Nice job.
DeleteA person could be having "good luck" and coincidentally be carrying a certain object with them at those moments, but I do not believe in a good luck charm. There is not one item that literally carries "luck" in them and I do not own an item that would consider 'lucky' and carry it with me at all times.
ReplyDeleteDobbins doesn't enjoy attending church, but he loves to genuinely be nice to others. Kiowa enjoys church, but he could never envision himself becoming a minister. I feel like I am a combination of Dobbins and Kiowa. I regularly attend church every sunday and I am as kind to people as I can be, but I could never see myself becoming a minister.
O'Brien personalizes the man he killed by creating an entire background story of the man. He talks about how his life could have been if he was not killed and he thinks about what the man went through and how he ended up in Vietnam. I find this strategy very effective because it makes the scene more realistic. You reflect on how this man was a real person who had a life before Vietnam.
I don't think O'Brien should have lied to his daughter. I feel like it's more reassuring to just tell her what truly happened when she is young and not grow up and find out something different and be upset over it. He should have killed the enemy solider because if he did not, he would be putting his own life in danger.
I wonder if even the people who DO carry good-luck charms feel about them the way you do: That they are just coincidentally there when good things happen. Interesting perspective.
DeleteI do believe that good luck charms can work if you truly believe that they do. I don't have one, because I guess I don't have an item that is of great importance to me such as the panty hose. I think they were a good luck charm to him because they belonged to his girlfriend and he loved her.
ReplyDeleteDobbins does not like churches but thinks that being nice and decent to people is a priority for him. He used to want to be a minister, but still cannot stand the idea of sitting in church every Sunday. He isn't very religious. Kiowa believes in God and loves the idea of church. He likes how it feels to be in a church. I like the idea of church but I have never actually liked going, and I do not believe in God. Although I am not religious, I am fascinated by the idea of religion and like hearing about other peoples' views on religion. So I guess I am more like Dobbins in this situation.
He personalizes the man he killed by telling about all the things he did with his life up until he was killed. He tells about what he studied in school, how he wanted to teach mathematics, and how he fell in love with a girl who was seventeen. This strategy is effective because it makes him have a story and shows that he was important before he was killed.
I do not think he should have lied to his daughter, even if she was young because someday she might find out that he lied to her and be upset about it. Even though she was young, I still think she would have understood that he was in the war and he didn't really have a choice. I think he should have killed the enemy soldier because just like Kiowa said, he would have died anyway. Someone else would have killed him.
I can relate to your views on religion, Emma. Like you, I am fascinated by studying religion and hearing other people discuss it, but I don't practice a particular faith, myself.
DeleteI do not believe in good luck charms and I do not own one. An item might provide comfort to a person, but no real special powers.
ReplyDeleteDobbins and Kiowa have different views on religion. Kiowa takes religion seriously he believes that they should not stay with the monks and leave the church alone.Kiowa cared his bible around with him because he did growing up. He never wanted to be a minister but he says “but I do like churches. The way it feels inside. It feels good when you just sit there…” Dobbins takes advantage of the monks by using their home and having them clean their guns. Dobbins contemplated becoming a minister for the physical benefits. Religion did not really interest him. My view of religion is closest to Kiowa’s view. Going to church calms me down and makes me feel at peace.
O’Brien (author) personalizes the soldier that “O’Brien” (the character) kills by going into detail about his life. The author makes inferences about his life by saying he was a scholar and had a life before the war. It is an effective strategy because the reader starts to feel O’Brien’s guilt for killing him.
O’Brien should not have lied to his young daughter when she asked if he killed a man. In the beginning of the chapter, he regrets telling her no and hopes that she will ask again later in life. She will grow up believing that her father never killed anyone, but will later learn that he did kill someone. It will be a hard truth for her that could change their bond forever. I think that O’Brien responded too quickly to the enemy soldier. If he would have waited to see if he would attack, he would be able to decide whether to kill him or not. After reading the inferences about the soldier, it is unlikely that he would have attacked them.
Would it bother you to know that O'Brien doesn't really have a daughter?
DeleteIn my opinion, if you believe that any object is truly "lucky" then you should carry it around with you. Possibly, just the mere thought of the object as being lucky could help influence you to do better in certain aspects of whatever it is that you're doing. I believe that lucky objects are based solely on belief, so, if you don't believe in lucky charms then it would be senseless to carry one. I do not have a lucky charm, however, I carry a guitar pick around even though I don't play because it was another persons lucky charm that was given to me.
ReplyDeleteDobbins views religion less seriously than Kiowa. Both men are uncomfortable with staying in a church, but they really have no choice. Dobbins views religion as something that you have to participate in in order to be accepted. He mentions that he might enjoy joining a church for the social interaction. Dobbins also uses a hand washing motion after giving the monks peaches and a chocolate bar. This motion could reference that of Pontius Pilate after he sentenced Jesus to crucifixion. Kiowa believes that religion is solely based of belief. He says that he only carries a bible with him because he was raised to do so, and that he couldn't see himself as a minister in a church delivering sermons.
The soldier that "O'Brien" kills I characterized with lots of description. O'Brien mentions that he killed was a very slim, dainty, man. He also goes on to give the man a backstory in which O'Brien mentions that the man probably attempted the university at Saigon. He says that the man was probably picked in in school for having a woman's walk, and that he chose calculus over politics. This strategy I'd very effective because it allows the reader, and O'Brien, to visualize the body as a human, rather than a lifeless corpse.
I believe that O'Brien shouldn't have lied to his daughter. However, I think that he should have waited until she was older in order to explain to her the situation. He should at least have waited for himself to get over the emotional impact of killing the man. It it my opinion that he should have killed the man. Kiowa has a good point when he says that the man was carrying a weapon, and they are in war. Kiowa also has a very valid point when he says that if O'Brien hadn't killed the man, another soldier would have. If O'Brien didn't kill the man when he did, he could have endangered the lives of his fellow comrades.
How far does an object's "luck" carry? Is a lucky rabbit's foot still lucky if I leave it at home on my dresser? (It wasn't very lucky for the rabbit.) Great reference to Pontius Pilate and how he relates to Dobbins.
DeleteI don't believe in the luck if lucky charms. I also do not have a charm myself.
ReplyDeleteDobbin would rather not attend church but be a minister because he likes doing good deeds to people. Kiowa would rather attend church than be a minister.i think Dobbins is closest because I like being nice to people and doing things for them.
The soldier that Obrien killed is given a back story and things that could have happened to him seeming like a person instead of just some random guy.
I believe he should not have lied, but he should have explained when he doesn't feel as guilty still. Also I do believe he should have killed because he did have a gun and it was war so other people could have been in danger if he didn't kill him.
The backstory certainly does personalize the dead soldier, even if there is no way that the narrator could ever know those things about the man.
DeleteMy opinion of a good luck charm is that they are usually something that makes a person feel secure, have confidence, and of course makes them have a sense of luckiness. I don't have a good luck charm personally, but I guess one could work in someone's favor.
ReplyDeleteDobbins and Kiowa both have a positive outlook on religion. Kiowa doesn't mind going to church, but would never consider being a minister. On the other hand Dobbins doesn't like sitting in church, but maybe would like to be a minister because he like being nice to people. The persons opinion which best fits mine when it come to religion would be Dobbins because I don't really like sitting in church, but don't mind being nice to people (although I don't think I would ever consider being a minister).
O'Brien personalized the killed soldier by presenting his future if he wouldn't have gotten killed. Presenting the background of the man, and explaining how he eventually got to Vietnam was a very effective strategy. By doing this he is able to add a level of realism and emotion by being able to reflect on the soldiers life.
On both cases O'Brien does the logical decision. I probably would have done the same thing when it comes to lying to a child about killing someone. He did mention that he hopes his daughter will ask him again some other time when she is older, probably to tell her the truth at a better time. Killing the soldier on the other hand is a hard decision. He posed no actual threat, but killing the enemy seemed to be almost a reflex rather than a decision.
You make a good point about kindness and religion, Evan. One does not have to be religious to be kind, or vice versa. Good post.
DeleteI do not believe in good luck charms and don't have one. I don't truly believe this object is lucky because I don't believe in good luck. I feel like it gives him reassurance to know that she's always with him. Dobbins and Kiowa view religion differently because Dobbins wants to help people and be kinda to people but doesn't like going to church. Kiowa has always like church but never thought to be a minister. I am more like Dobbins when it comes to religion. I don't like sitting in church but I love helping people. He guessing on what the mans life was like. It's very effective because it creates a story and makes it more effective. O'Brien shouldn't have lied to his daughter because if she asked him out of curiosity then he should tell the truth. I do think he should have killed the enemy soldier. That same guy he didn't kill probably killed some of his soldiers.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy for us to not believe in luck when we are not in daily situations where our lives are in danger. In moments of crisis, or continual crisis, I wonder if we wouldn't turn to luck as a crutch. Nice post, Leelee.
DeleteGood luck charms are weird, I don't have any or necessarily believe in them, but at the same time, I like the idea of them. Maybe they do work for people, I dunno. The closest I have to a good luck charm is before every point in a tennis match I crack my wrists and spin my racket. I think I just do it to calm nerves though. Dobbins really picks up on the morals and friendliness of religion. Kiowa seems to be more interested in the sacredness of churches and such. Dobbins' view is closest to mine, being nice to people can go a long way, and often things go wrong when people over analyze things. O'Brien personalized the dead man by making assumptions that he loved math, was scared of war, and fell in love at school. It was effective because it really makes you feel bad, like you were there too. He shouldn't have flat out denied killing someone, but said some long and lame story about war, all while avoiding the truth without lying and boring his daughter so she'd leave. I don't know how I feel about him killing the enemy soldier. The soldier might've killed him. O'Brien was scared and acted out of fear, which makes sense in war.
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point about good-luck charms. Maybe they are a self-fulfilling prophecy, making us do better and make smart decisions because we believe in the power they exude. It's almost a placebo effect.
DeleteI believe good luck charms are as effecting as you believe they are. I think having a good luck charms makes you gain confidence and hopefulness. Sadly I do not have a good luck charm even though I have always wanted one. I think it is a neat idea that you have an item you belive makes you have good fornation. Dobbion does not like to go to church but wants to be a minster. While Kiowa like going to church but wouldnt want to be a minster. I see my self closer to Dobbions because I do not like going to church ,and love to help other. O briend does a great job making the man he killed a real human being. He made it though the man was just not some solider but a real human being with dreams feeling, and people who care for him. He should have lied to his daughter about killing the man or at least bent around the truth .He should have talked about morals in life and how war is a terrible thing with many tough choices and you do them all to protect your loved ones. He could have told here when she was more mental mature. He should have killed him as sad as that is to say. In war you have to kill to protect your comrades and loved ones.
ReplyDeleteI agree that good luck charms are as effective as people believe they are. Excellent point. Good discussion of what O'Brien should have said to his daughter.
DeleteI think good luck charms are a great thing to believe in. Some people have little gifts or treasures that keep a family member or friend alive in their hearts or in the object. Or they just have faith in that object and like to take it everywhere, believing it will give them luck. I don't have a good luck charm myself, but if I did have one, i'd carry it everywhere. Dobbins view on religion is that he believes in God, but he isn't all that religious. He wanted to be a minister growing up, but he couldn't because it takes brains, something he says he doesn't have much of. He talks about how maybe one day joining the monks that live in the church one day, because he just likes the thought of being nice to people, not the whole religion thing.Kiowa carries a bible everywhere he goes, and he compares sitting in a church to sitting in a forest. He says the church is relaxing and that he never considered being a minister like Dobbins had. Then they leave the church because they both think its wrong to be at war and be sitting in a church.
ReplyDeleteThe author explains the man he killed in great description. He repeats characteristics of the man over and over, as if he doesn't want the reader to miss any details.
No, I don't think he should have told his daughter that he killed a man. She was a young girl and she didn't have to know that her father killed someone, in justice or not. And yes I do believe he should have killed the enemy soldier because even though he didn't see him yet, who knows if he would have seen him and killed him.
Good description of how O'Brien reinforces the details of the man he has killed. I agree: He's trying to drill those characteristics into our heads.
DeleteI don't think good luck charms actually work, I think they just hold a more sentimental value. I don't have any thing like that myself, but to others they might make them feel better.
ReplyDeleteDobbins doesn't enjoy going to church, but he thinks being kind to others and doing the right thing is very important. He's not really that religious, but Kiowa does enjoy going to church and believes in God. I'm more like Dobbins because I've never liked going to church. I don't believe in a God, but my view is more that the universe itself and everything around us is like a "higher power." I also enjoy being kind to others and helping people. But, I find religion very intriguing and I like to read about different ones in my free time.
O'Brian personalizes the dead soldier by giving him a back story. He talks about his family and his life. He gives him emotions and makes him a real person. I think what he does is very effective because instead of making him seem like nobody you understand that he was an actual guy and he had a life.
I don't think he should've told his daughter that he killed a man. She was young and no young child wants to hear that their father killed someone. Although it was for a good cause it is something too complicated for a young child to fully understand. I do think he should've killed the man thought because if he had not he would've risked putting himself in danger. The man could've killed him instead.
Would it surprise you to know that there is no real-life daughter, Amber?
ReplyDeleteI don't have a good luck charm, but the idea is a nice one. It helps explain that which is unexplainable, like one might say that they narrowly missed a car collision because they happened to find a heads-up penny that day. Really, it's more of a placebo than an object that actual brings someone luck.
ReplyDeleteDobbins and Kiowa view religion similarly, but at different levels. While Dobbins' limit seems to be interacting with the people at church, that is Kiowa's minimum limit. Dobbins couldn't imagine being a preacher, and probably has never taken it into an form of serious consideration, whereas Kiowa has obviously thought about it, but still made the decision to stay away from the pulpit. My views align more with Dobbins. I like the idea of religion; the sense of community, the outreaching kindness, and the complete devotion are uplifting qualities. My only issue with it is a few of the standard beliefs, and also that it doesn't always work out when put into practice.
O'Brien personalizes the murder because he is extremely descriptive. It makes it seem like such a real story, it must be true. If I can see it so vividly, it must not be half of what he experienced. It's very effective. I believed it to be true up until he admitted to it.
I would've lied to my daughter to protect her innocence. Although O'Brien isn't pained as a true murderer, and it could almost be seen as accidental, it's still a murder story and he could've chosen not to pull the pin. O'Brien killing the soldier didn't seem to be of much concern, seeing as Kiowa thought he was going to be killed anyway.
Does it bother you to learn that O'Brien doesn't have a daughter? Is lying to a fictional child better/worse/the same as lying to a real child? :)
ReplyDelete